The Fallacy of Equal Rights
last updated 16th January 2006

Manu Samhita on women and women's rights:
Varnashram is to be followed by all of us:
Our Philosophy as opposed to some other philosophy:
Quotes from Vedabase showing that Prabhupad DID NOT agree with Equal Rights:
Seeing women as our mothers:
Further quotes from Manu Samhita:
The Feminist Polemic:
A look into history and the origin of faminism:

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad's clear explanation of mutual appreciation and practice:

The Avanti, Balaram or Tamal fonts will be needed to view parts of this text

It is material disease.  Their statements lack guru-sadhu-shastra, they lack Vedic wisdon or reasoning.  They are only full of the same meaningless flower words found in the feminist movement of the material world.

All humans are NOT born materialy equal. And NO ONE is born with dignity in this material world.  We are all born naked, coming out from a hole where urine flows, just next to the hole where stool is evacuated. We come out along with stool, covered with many horrible things. Birth is the most indignent thing to befall on us. We are not born with dignity in this rotten material world.  That we are born equally indignent is more close to the truth, but as Guru Krsna points out, there is no equality.  Are the children born in Kosovo or Palestine equal to those born in Bel Aire California (the upper class part of Beverly Hills)?  We are not born equal. And with what rights?  America may have so many 'freedoms', but I am not free to live in accordance with the laws of Manu or Vedic law.  Thus, there is only religious freedom in name only, we are no free to live in accordance with religious laws.

Srila Prabhupad scoffed at the idea of women being equal and free.  A 'free' woman, an equal woman, simply means prostitute.  And damn if some crazy women are going to polute my daughters to try and turn them into prostitutes by giving them so-called 'freedom'.  Women are to be protected under the authority of men in all stages of life.  This is what Srila Prabhupad teaches.

Women are to be protected.  But you cannot protect an equal, you can only give protection to a subordinate.   The citizens of the country are subordinate to the government or the government could not protect.  If a uniformed police officer or military officer gives an ordinary citizen an order, he must obey or he can be arrested for disobeying an officer of the law in the course of his duty.  Police are given that authority by the law.  Similarily Vedic law gives the husband Authority over his wife.  Not EQUAL, but his is given authority.  It is only if the wife submits to his authority that a man can properly protect his wife.  If the woman is not submissive, then how can the man protect? ? ?

Where is there a question of Equality? Total Equality is as much a fantasy as mayavad equality is a fantasy - every living being is different, individual and according to their nature, capacity and tendency is functionally different, what to speak of different genders. Unfortunately, in the present age, due to political manipulation, injustices such as oppression and exploitation by devious men have tricked women into slavery, abused them, and continue to abuse them under the banner of "bills of rights". They, the political, industrial, social manipulators have by cleaver means assisted a false evolutionary state most chavanistic and given some notion of liberation whilst actually chaining women to an image of aspiring to become equal to something of a will-o-the-whisp phantasmagoria.

Srila Prabhupada on Women's Liberation.

A list of instances refuting equality by His Divine Grace.

Instead of equality, we should be looking toward functionality. As individuals, each of us function slightly different, and if we instead of trying to imitate at best, or challenge natural trends, creating something artificial, look at reality and our potential, we would be happier and more satisfied. Over the past couple of decades educators have tried to instill in girls their ideals of false equality, and to some degree, now the women folk in some places do act like men, having lost or given up their power of shyness, chastity, innocense, etc. Now, they think they have the right to determine their own future and carry the responsibility for it.
    Consequently there are more single mothers dependent on government subsidies than ever. Men unwilling to fight over who takes the lead in the family leave the women, with children to fend for themselves, unprotected - after all they are equal. Sadly in most cases, as predicted in Bhagavad Gita, when such women folk are left unprotected there comes unwanted progeny. Such unwanted progeny then being set the example to depend on government handouts, themselves duplicate the trend of moral, intellectual and spiritual degeneration. Such degeneration intensly affects the world, through crime rates, self abuse - intoxication dependency rates, social crimes like rape, physical abuse, suicide rates, etc. Often when such persons do get some position of authority their dysfunctional background tinges their vision and decision making so that liberalisitc immoral views such as those that plague the world today are brought into be public law(s).

Presently the world is in the grand illusion of material betterment through entangling themselves in artificial or unnatural methods to solve social problems they themselves have caused.

Just as it is foolishness to allow an addict to administer drugs to patients, so those who are materially affected by the three modes of nature, and who exibit such symptoms through their desires and actions should never be in a position of directing other folk.

There is a natural structure already to some degree of remnant in place in most places in the world. It is natural, fulfilling, and free from any artificial trend to make one or another equal or better advantaged. That system is called Daivi-Varnashram Dharma.

Since when was an apple equal to an orange, or an orange equal to a banana. Each has it's individual look, aroma, colour, taste and function. Similarly to compare a man and a woman is a nonesense of similar magnitude. Certainly no-one should be abused, and each individual should be assisted to develop to their natual propensity without propaganda of being forced to act in some artificial manner to fulfill the goals of materialistic despotic manipulators.

Something about history that has been carefully missed out by the manipulators of society.

Concern for women's rights dates from the Enlightenment, when the liberal, egalitarian, and reformist ideals of that period began to be extended from the bourgeoisie, peasants, and urban labourers to women as well. The period's nascent ideas concerning women's rights were fully set forth in Mary Wollstonecraft's A Vindication of the Rights of Woman, published in England in 1792, which challenged the idea that women exist only to please men and proposed that women receive the same opportunities as men in education, work, and politics. In the 19th century, however, the awareness of women's need for equality with men crystallized in the movement to obtain woman suffrage (q.v.), rather than in any fundamental or far-reaching reevaluation of women's social status, roles, and their place in the economy. In the later 19th century a few women began to work in the professions, and women as a whole achieved the right to vote in the first half of the 20th century, but there were still distinct limits on women's participation in the workplace, as well as a set of prevailing notions that tended to confine women to their traditional roles as wives, mothers, and homemakers.

Meanwhile, the economic conditions underlying women's inferior (or at least dependent) status were changing as women had fewer children and as household appliances freed them from many of the labour-intensive chores formerly associated with housekeeping. The growth of the service sector in the Western world's economies in the decades following World War II also helped create new types of jobs that could be done as well by women as by men. All these factors made growing numbers of women aware that society's traditional notions of them had failed to change as rapidly as women's actual living conditions had. In addition, the Civil Rights Movement in the United States during the 1960s inspired women to try to obtain better conditions for themselves through similar campaigns of mass agitation and social criticism.

A milestone in the rise of modern feminism was Simone de Beauvoir's book Le Deuxième Sexe (1949; The Second Sex), which became a worldwide best-seller and raised feminist consciousness by appealing to the idea that liberation for women was liberation for men too. Another major work was The Feminine Mystique, published in 1963 by Betty Friedan, an American. She attacked deadening domesticity--the conditioning of women to accept passive roles and depend on male dominance. In 1966 Friedan and other feminists founded the National Organization for Women. Other women's organizations for equal rights proliferated in the United States and in western Europe immediately thereafter. These organizations sought to overturn laws and practices that enforced the inferior status of women by discrimination in such matters as contract and property rights, employment and pay issues, and management of earnings and in matters related to sex and childbearing (i.e., contraception and abortion).

More broadly, the growing feminist movement sought to change society's prevailing stereotypes of women as relatively weak, passive, and dependent individuals who are less rational and more emotional than men. Feminism sought to achieve greater freedom for women to work and to remain economically and psychologically independent of men if they chose. Feminists criticized society's prevailing emphasis on women as objects of sexual desire and sought to broaden both women's self-awareness and their opportunities to the point of equality with men. Another of feminism's aims was to advance women's participation in political decision-making and all areas of public life.

Feminists in western developed countries have agitated against mass-media presentations of women that seemed biased, stereotypical, or discriminatory. In parts of Africa, feminists' goals may be more basic--such as removal of the bride-price. In the Muslim Middle East, they may seek relaxation of the dress code and the code of seclusion. In many countries they may decry the wife's need to get her husband's permission to sign a contract or bring a lawsuit. (Copyright 1994-1998 Encyclopaedia Britannica)

According to Vedik traditions if there's an emergency then every pulls together doing as much as one can do, men women a like. Just as we saw in the second world war, when the men were away on the front fighting the women folk kept things together back at home. Although as we recall unless the women folk are protected, even in such emergency situations, then one gets scenarios happening as in England and Europe when the American troops came through, sweeping all the young women up with their ways. So such so-called equality after a war is again given up, and the chaste women return to serving their husbands who survived the front-line. That is the norm.

As I had noted in my paper on women (not) doing abhisheka in Mayapur, occupational equality MAY be accepted as an aapad-dharma (emergency dharma) for various reasons but NOT as the norm. We object to occupational equality being presented as the NORM. It is not the norm. It may be out of emergency, for the sake of preaching that it may be there. But it is aapad-dharma. Not normal dharma. In ISKCON, we must clearly establish what the norm is and what aapad dharma is and we should have a "cultural progress", a progress towards the original Varnashrama.

(SB 7.11.17)

"Except in a time of emergency, lower persons should not accept the occupational duties of those who are higher. When there is such an emergency, of course, everyone but the ksatriya may accept the means of livelihood of others."

Purport excerpt:

"At the present moment, society is in a chaotic condition, and everyone has given up the cultivation of spiritual life, which is especially meant for the brŠhmanas. Because spiritual culture has been stopped all over the world, there is now an emergency, and THEREFORE IT IS NOW TIME TO TRAIN THOSE WHO ARE CONSIDERED LOWER AND CONDEMNED, SO THAT THEY MAY BECOME BRAHMANAS AND TAKE UP THE WORK OF SPIRITUAL PROGRESS. The spiritual progress of human society has been stopped, and this should be considered an emergency."

We have directly experienced in dealing with the adherants to the all-one equality-vada. That still they discriminate, like anything in fact, because although they cry out for equality, no man is equal in their eyes.

Here is a a quote from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Bhakty-aaloka (Chapter "Sadhu-vrtti"). This can be added in your article somewhere.

Srila Ramananda Raya said that the process for achieving the supreme goal of life is given in the Visnu Purana as follows:

varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman
visnur aradhyate pantha nanyat tat-tosa-karanam

"One can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, by proper discharge of the principles of varna and asrama. There is no alternative to pacifying the Lord by execution of the principles of the varnasrama system." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, however, rejected this process as external and requested him to give a higher conclusion. The purport of Sri Caitanya's statement is this: "O Ramananda! Varnasrama-dharma is meant to regulate the gross and subtle bodies. If someone is satisfied only in that, without engaging in devotional service of Krsna, then what is his gain? Therefore, although the process of varnasrama is the only means of purification for a conditioned soul, still it is not external." As stated in Srimad Bhagavatam

dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam

"The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead." From this one should not conclude that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has ordered us to discard varnasrama-dharma. If that would have been the case, then He would not have instructed all living entities through His pastimes of completely following the orders of grhastha and sannyasa. As long as one has a material body the system of varnasrama dharma must be followed, but it should remain under the full control and domination of bhakti.

Manu is a mahajana and therefore he is an authority. Our Vedic system is conducted according to the laws of Manu. (Bhagavad-gita 13.8-12--Bombay, September 30, 1973) The Manus are sometimes incarnations of the Supreme Lord and sometimes empowered living entities. (SB 7.8.48)

The human race descends from Manu. Therefore followers Vedic culture follow the principles and codes of Manu-samhita. Manu-samhita is the law and it should not be amended. For example, according to Manu-samhita divorce is not allowed. These principles cannot be amended by any responsible leader. (Bhagavad-gita 7.3 Bombay, February 18, 1974) The Manu-smrti is an example of the standard of brahminical culture. It is so perfect that it can be applicable for all time, past, present and future. (SSR 6)

The Manu-smrti is considered the highest Vedic direction to humanity. (Adi 6.14-15)It  is the standard lawbook for humanity and every human being is advised to follow this great book of social knowledge. (2.1.36) The Manu -samhita is considered the be the all-pervaidng authority over the human race. (7.11.7)

The acarya must follow these principles of sastra (scripture) to teach the common man. The teacher cannot manufacture rules against the principles of revealed scriptures. (BG.3.21) The Manu-samhita (2.140) explains the duties of the acarya. In the Vayu Purana an acarya is defined as one who knows the import of all Vedic literature, explains the purpose of the Vedas, abides by their rules and regulations, and teaches his disciples to act in the same way. ( CC Adi 1.46) Qualified brahmanas are meant to give direction to the kings for proper administration in terms of the scriptures like the Manu-samhita. (1.9.27) Narada Muni, the incarnation of bhakti, follows the Manu Samhita and directed King  Pracinabarhisat to likewise follow such rules and regulations. (SB 4.25.8)Srila Rupa Gosvami says that if one poses himself as advanced in spiritual life but does not refer to the srutis and smrtis like the Manu samhita, then he is simply a disturbance in society.(4.18.3)  One cannot be a pure devotee without following these sruti and smrti, and the sruti and smrti without devotional service cannot lead one to the perfection of life.(7.11.7)

One should follow the principles of these sruti and smrti not only in one's spiritual life but in material life as well. For example in the Manu-smrti it is stated that a woman should not be given independence. Though presently women are given full independence like men, we can actually see that such independent women are no happier than those women who are placed under guardians. Unfortunately rascals manufacture and invent so many methods to be happy. Consequently human society has lost the standard ways of life, both materially and spiritually. As a result people are bewildered, and there is no peace or happiness in the world. Attempts to solve these problems through the United Nations are still baffled because they do not follow the liberated instructions of the Vedas. It is therefore essential that people follow what is given in the srutis and smrtis to make sure that the human mission is successful. (4.18.3)
That theocratic government is Manu-samhita. (Discussions with Hayagriva on Emmanuel Kant) The monarch is supposed to govern strictly according to Vedic principles under the guidance of learned brahmanas, who could advise Him according to the standard Vedic scriptures like Manu-smrti. It is the duty of the king to rule the citizens according to Vedic principles of varna and asrama. He must see that everyone is engaged in his occupational duty according to Vedic principles. (5.4.5)

The Manu-samhita directs all activities towards the transcendental service of the Lord.
(SB 3.13.12) It presents the moral principles for conducting society.
(Morning Walk--April 20, 1974, Hyderabad) In the Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krsna teaches people about varnasrama-dharma so that  by observing these principles, humanity can live peacefully and thus make advancement in spiritual knowledge. The Manu-samhita is full of these directions based on varna and asrama. Demons break all these systems of law and order causing the degradation of human society. Thus there is no peace in the world. The conclusion is that if we want real peace and order in human society, we must follow the principles laid down by Manu-samhita and confirmed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. (SB 7.8.48)

We learn from the history of the Mahabharata that the wives and daughters of the ksatriyas knew the political game, but they were never given the post of chief executive. This is in accordance with the injunctions of the Manu-samhita. Unfortunately, the Manu-samhita is now being insulted, and the Aryans, the members of Vedic society, cannot do anything. Such is the nature of Kali-yuga. (SB 10.4.5)

The demons have now neglected these principles and injunctions. Though Manu clearly states that a woman should not be given freedom, the demons think that women should be given as much freedom as men.  Modern education, which is controlled by these demons, has artificially devised a puffed-up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society. Nor is the moral condition of woman very good now. Demons do not accept any instruction which is good for society. Because they do not follow the experience of great sages and the rules and regulations laid down by the sages like Manu samhita, the social condition of the demoniac people is very miserable. (BG16.7)

We cannot manufacture laws or dharma.These  false dharmas are kicked out of Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.1.2). Dharma means "the laws given by God." These laws are written in books like the Manu-samhita.(Teachings of Lord Kapila 6.11) All other dharmas are simply forms of cheating. We must accept the principles of Bhagavad-gita, which constitute the ABC'S of dharma. Actually, we only have to accept the principle of surrender unto Krsna, but this acceptance comes after many, many births. It is not very easy, for only after many births of struggle does one come to his real perfection and surrender unto Krsna. (TLK Vs. 11)

Women's dependence is described in Manu-samhita.  There are many examples cited in the sastra. Kunit was not an ordinary woman. She was very exalted and learned. , but she still remained dependent upon her sons. Sita is another example.  She was not obliged to follow Rama.  But her attitiude was, "Wherever my husband shall go, I must go." This is Vedic culture. According to our culture, unless the husband is crazy, in every case the wife must be faithful and subservient to the husband. That is the Vedic culture. Gandhari, voluntarily blinding herself and Damayanti accepting the poverty stricken position of her husband are other examples. This is a woman's perfection. The Americans may not like this idea but we are speaking of the Vedic culture. (Room Conversation after Press Conference July 9, 1975, Chicago)

Our philosophy is "We are not the body we are spirit souls, and servants of Lord Krsna. While being spiritually equal as souls, there is material inequality because of the body we find ourselves in. We should serve Krsna according to the facility accorded us by our material bodies which have been awarded to us by the law of karma."

Their philosophy is "we are not the body but spirit souls, since there is spiritual equality then there also is material equality of the body if you understand that you are not body but soul."

Yes, it sounds strange to me too, but familiar. It is mayavada philosophy. Somehow it all becomes one. Perhaps such liberated ladies can arrange with their husbands, if they still have husbands, to alternate which of them gets pregnant and has periods etc. Hopefully these liberated ladies will also be anxious to perform other male body tasks such as ploughing the fields in Mayapur. I'm sure that the men would be more than happy to give such jobs to the ladies. But unfortunately when they were offered this opportunity none rushed to take it. They only wanted the leadership roles and the perks. To me this sounded suspiciously like materialistic competition for power. VaD will only work if there is cooperation between the varnas, ashramas and sexes not envy and competition.

If our respected opponents continue in this way of wanting to be the men then they will do a great disservice to SP's desire to establish VaD within the western world.

Our respectable opponents don't know what VaD is. Yet they want to introduce so-called new cultural standards to India and especially Mayapura. SP wanted all of his disciples to go to India and learn from the natives what Vedic culture is. It may be the vestiges of Vedic culture but it is still there. He wanted us to revive Vedic culture, not snuff it out as our respectable opponents would do as a by-product of their vanity for prestige, adoration and distinction. They should understand that Vedic culture explains that thetrue power, glory and beauty of a woman is her chastity. By chastity is meant her complete and utter devotion to her husband and family, moral purity, decency and modesty.

"The beauty of the cuckoo is in its singing,
the beauty of a woman is in her chastity,
the beauty of the ugly is in their intelligence
and the beauty of the sadhu is in his capacity to forgive." Canakya Pandita

Such chaste women command respect. Our respectable opponents however demand respect. Srila Prabhupada once told the story of when he was a young man working at the Bose chemical company in Calcutta. He was talking with a bunch of managers when all of the men suddenly became aware of a common, low born, sweeper woman who was standing silently nearby. She had to get by and do her work. Seeing this woman all the men cleared a path for her to go through. SP commented that though she was a banghi (sweeper) she was so chaste that without saying a word she was able to move a whole group of men aside. She commanded respect. Without even saying word, so much power she had. That is the result of cultural training, even of a sweeper woman.

The program of our respectable opponents is all based on sentimental lamentations of the difficulties that they have had in life and fanatically blaming all their woes on those big, bad, cruel men. Theirs is thus a program of religion without philosophy. All sentiment and fanaticism mixed with lots of envy and anger. Where is their philosophical understanding that this material world is a mess? That it is not designed to be a happy camping ground? Do they have any understanding of how it is that they were forced to enter into the female form against their will? Perhaps now they might understand more why the female form, along with vaisya and sudra forms, are considered papa-yoni. Because they are very troublesome and vulnerable forms.

If it is any consolation to our respectable opponents I can assure them that the present male body which I am inhabiting is not so great. I would gladly dispense with it and am wondering when that blessed day will come. But if they think it is so glorious then I will gladly bless all of them as follows: "May you all take at least 10,000,000 births in male forms." Then you will see what I mean how troublesome this body is. I am wondering why you are envious of me for having it? Since you are envious and want to occupy it then do so for the next 10,000,000 lives. If I have any stature as a Brahmana, then may Krsna be pleased to grant all of you such births for the next 10,000,000 lifetimes.

We should not be envious of another's position that they have gotten by the law of karma. I am not a wealthy man, that is my karma. If I see a wealthy man it would not be right to envy his wealth and say that now he must share his wealth with me or try to take it by stealing. That is communism. "The great yearning for the equal distribution of unequal earning." I must be satisfied with what ever my lot in life is. That is real wealth. To be satisfied with what ever is given to us by God. No matter how rich we are, if we are not satisfied with what we have we are actually impoverished. But even if we are materially poor if we are satisfied then we are wealthy. In GB 12.13-14 Krsna says:
"One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, >>always satisfied<<, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me--such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.

 "Coming again to the point of pure devotional service, the Lord is describing the transcendental qualifications of a pure devotee in these two verses. A pure devotee is never disturbed in any circumstances. Nor is he envious of anyone. Nor does a devotee become his enemy's enemy; he thinks, ``This person is acting as my enemy due to my own past misdeeds. So it is better to suffer than to protest.'' In the Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.14.8) it is stated: tat te 'nukampam susam iksamano bhunjana evatma-krtam vipakam. Whenever a devotee is in distress or has fallen into difficulty, he thinks that it is the Lord's mercy upon him. He thinks, 'Thanks to my past misdeeds I should suffer far, far greater than I am suffering now. So it is by the mercy of the Supreme Lord that I am not getting all the punishment I am due.

I am just getting a little, by the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' Therefore he is always calm, quiet and patient, despite many distressful conditions. A devotee is also always kind to everyone, even to his enemy. Nirmama means that a devotee does not attach much importance to the pains and trouble pertaining to the body because he knows perfectly well that he is not the material body. He does not identify with the body; therefore he is freed from the conception of false ego and is equipoised in happiness and distress. >>He is tolerant, and he is satisfied with whatever comes by the grace of the Supreme Lord. He does not endeavor much to achieve something with great difficulty; therefore he is always joyful.<< He is a completely perfect mystic because he is fixed in the instructions received from the spiritual master, and because his senses are controlled he is determined. He is not swayed by false arguments, because no one can lead him from the fixed determination of devotional service. He is fully conscious that Krsna is the eternal Lord, so no one can disturb him. All these qualifications enable him to fix his mind and intelligence entirely on the Supreme Lord. Such a standard of devotional service is undoubtedly very rare, but a devotee becomes situated in that stage by following the regulative principles of devotional service. Furthermore, the Lord says that such a devotee is very dear to Him, for the Lord is always pleased with all his activities in full Krsna consciousness."

And in BG 17.16 Krsna says:

"And satisfaction, simplicity, gravity, self-control and purification of one's existence are the austerities of the mind."

"To make the mind austere is to detach it from sense gratification. It should be so trained that it can be always thinking of doing good for others. The best training for the mind is gravity in thought. One should not deviate from Krsna consciousness and must always avoid sense gratification. To purify one's nature is to become Krsna conscious. Satisfaction of the mind can be obtained only by taking the mind away from thoughts of sense enjoyment. The more we think of sense enjoyment, the more the mind becomes dissatisfied. In the present age we unnecessarily engage the mind in so many different ways for sense gratification, and so there is no possibility of the mind's becoming satisfied. The best course is to divert the mind to the Vedic literature, which is full of satisfying stories, as in the Puranas and the Mahabharata. One can take advantage of this knowledge and thus become purified. The mind should be devoid of duplicity, and one should think of the welfare of all. Silence means that one is always thinking of self-realization. The person in Krsna consciousness observes perfect silence in this sense. Control of the mind means detaching the mind from sense enjoyment. One should be straightforward in his dealings and thereby purify his existence. All these qualities together constitute austerity in mental activities."

So we again appeal to our respectful opponents to not be envious of their sons, husbands, fathers, brothers and nephews. Or to attack women who want to develop cultured lives for themselves and their families. But to be simply satisfied with what ever Lord Krsna has given you. Then you will be happy.

Of course I can already hear some say. "It's the devil quoting scripture. Just trying to use sastra to keep us poor women down trodden." We counter that by saying that at least this devil quotes scripture. Our opponents are sadly lacking with being able to bring any sastra to the forefront. When we bring sastra, it's the devil. How long will this work on honest devotees? Rather than bring sastra they bring feminist-mayavada and we are supposed to gladly drink the poison of mayavada generated by unsatisfied material desire and envy.

Male or female, material life is a bum deal. But if we use the present forms we have according to the propensity of that form we can make advancement. However if we try to act artificially advanced, or worse still corrupt our philosophy by introducing  mayavada concepts. That is, that all bodies are one. Then we will not advance, not become happy, but slide into lower and lower species of life.

Thank you for your patience. Begging to remain

Your insignificant servant

Shyamasundara Dasa

PS it should be clearly understood that there are many souls in female bodies who are ardently opposed to the mixture of mayavada and misanthropy which our respectable opponents cherish. Similarly the are some souls in male bodies who support our opponents. Their reasons are varied: sentiment, confusion, emasculation, political correctness, guilt, perceived political advantage, philosophical immaturity, etc.

We appeal to those who cherish SP's vision of establishing Krsna Consciousness through Varnashrama Dharma to please step forward and help us achieve that goal. If you have any skill or want to make a financial contribution for propagating this message then please contact Mother Sita the moderator of this forum. All your services and contributions are welcome and much needed. Thank you.

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Equal Rights
The following are just a sample from the BBT Folio just doing a search for Equal Rights - or - women equal rights- that got 18 hits, all of which Prabhupad attacked the idea and spoke out strongly against this, here is a sampling:

"So children, brähmaëa, and here it is said stré, woman. According to Vedic politics, the children and brähmaëa, old men and woman, they have no fault. They are out of all laws of the state. Their fault will never be taken as seriously. They are innocent. They require protection. Now the agitation is that woman should have equal rights with man. So that is not Vedic idea. Vedic idea is that woman should be always protected. She is not independent. Just like child. "

"Just like in the Western countries, the women declare that “Why we should not have equal rights with the man?” But by nature it is different. The man is the enjoyer, and the woman is the enjoyed. That is the position. Bhoktä and bhogya. There are many social problems in your country—I do not wish to discuss—but it is very grave problems." (several times Srila Prabhupad said this, that he did not wish to discuss this point.  But fortunately he did discuss it.  Why he did not want to at times????  Because these same women or women with the same mentality would become upset. But, he did discuss these things. As we see here again he relates this to grave problems with our society...)

"Just like our women, Krsna conscious, they are working. They don’t want equal rights with men. It is due to Krsnaa consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never say that “I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupäda.” They never say. This is artificial. So Krsna consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial (indistinct)"

Women who actually Krsna Conscious, they will not ask for Equal Rights with men...   This is Srila Prabhupad's teachings.  Not this trash and stinking garbage written by NON-Krsna-conscious women who are demanding Equal Rights, Equal Rights, Equal Rights...

"These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child?"

"Therefore we don’t find, amongst women, any big scientist. It is impossible. Don’t be angry. (laughter) And these rascals giving equal rights. Just see. And Vedic civilization: “No, they should be protected.” The woman should be protected by the father, by the husband, and by elderly sons. No independence."

"Guest: in America they are fighting to become independent. And also abortion. They are fighting that the abortion should be there. Now this your message, is conveyed through the reporters and I would like the reporter to assess the reaction from the masses here, whether Gurukula is sponsoring for the women liberation and equal rights...
Prabhupäda: No, no, you are asking solution of the question who is already in darkness. You should take instruction from Bhagavad-gita. You are asking women who are supposed to be dependent, and you are asking question from them? To answer will not be from them. The answer, the standard answer, you have to take from the book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gita. Then the answer will be perfect."

"Now these rascal Westerners, there the women claiming equal rights. Change that the man will give birth to a child and not the woman.
Kartikeya: Equal right.
Prabhupäda: Equal rights. Make agreement. “Once you beget; once I shall.” (laughs) Make this contract. Then it is equal right. If the woman has to give birth of a child and she has to suffer all the pains thereof, then where is the equal right? Where is equal right ?

"Prabhupäda: No, no, I don’t say that I don’t like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights—your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.
Akñayänanda: That doesn’t mean you don’t like them.
Prabhupäda: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that “If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement.”
Harikeça: Viçäkhä was preaching to her. She said that “Actually we are less intelligent.” (laughter) That started a big scandal...
Prabhupäda: Yes. And that is Kåñëa consciousness. (break) They are in equal right, then... Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they’ll have homosex, and the woman also independent and they will make some... This is most immoral things."

"Just like in your country the women, they are thinking of equal rights. Eh? And how you can equal rights? You have to become pregnant. So you become pregnant and take care of the child; that is your duty. In India still, you’ll find they are happy. And now they are, “No, we shall be equal with the men.” And how you’ll stop your pregnancy? And that they do not think. So they’re thinking that “We shall not be pregnant, and if we become pregnant we shall kill, and we shall have equal rights with the men.” This is going on."

"Just like a male and female. That movement is very strong now in America. The female wants to become male, or equal rights. This is mäyä. How woman can become in equal with man? "

Morning Walk  May 1, 1974, Bombay
Prabhupäda: Put problems. I’ll solve.
Yogeçvara: Here’s a problem. The women today want the same rights as men.
How can they be satisfied?
Prabhupäda: Everything will be satisfied. Just like our women, Krsna conscious, they are working. They don’t want equal rights with men. It is due to Krsna consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never say that “I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupäda.” They never say. This is artificial. So Krsna consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial (indistinct) (loud traffic noises)
Bhagavän: They say that our women are unintelligent because they submit so easily, but...
..But actually, our women are so qualified in so many ways, but these girls who simply work in the city can do nothing. They can’t cook, they can’t clean, they can’t sew.
Prabhupäda: All rubbish. These modern girls, they are all rubbish.
Therefore they are simply used for sex satisfaction. Topless, bottomless...

Television Interview July 9, 1975, Chicago   750709iv.chi
Woman reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men?
Prabhupäda: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Woman reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupäda: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to
man. That is the cause.
Woman reporter: What advice do you have to women who do not want to be subordinate to men?

Prabhupäda: It is not my advice, but it is the advice of the Vedic knowledge that woman should be chaste and faithful to man.
Woman reporter: What should we do in the United States? We’re trying to make women equal with men.
Prabhupäda: I am not trying. You are already not equal with the man because in so many respects, your functions are different and man’s functions are different. Why do you say artificially they are equal?

Woman reporter: Is the social unrest in this country caused  because...
Prabhupäda: Because of these things. They do not know that.
Woman reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupäda: Yes. Man wants that woman should be subordinate, faithful to him. Then he is ready to take charge. The man’s mentality, woman’s mentality different. So if the woman agrees to remain faithful and subordinate to man, then the family life will be peaceful.

Woman reporter: You have different schools for men and women, is that correct?
Prabhupäda: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.          … Then the life will be very successful. And marriage, compulsory. Marriage, compulsory.
Woman reporter: Everyone should marry?
Prabhupäda: Yes. Every woman, at least, should be married. Therefore, according to Vedic conception, polygamy is allowed.
Woman reporter: Is allowed?
Prabhupäda: Yes. Because every woman must be married. But every man may not be married. Therefore man has to accept more than one wife.

SB 4.18.4
To benefit all human society, not only in this life but in the next, the great seers and sages have prescribed various methods conducive to the prosperity of the people in general.

Vedic civilization takes advantage of the perfect knowledge presented in the Vedas and presented by great sages and brähmaëas for the benefit of human society. Vedic injunctions are known as çruti, and the additional supplementary presentations of these principles, as given by the great sages, are known as småti. They follow the principles of Vedic instruction. Human society should take advantage of the instructions from both sruti and smrti. If one wants to advance in spiritual life, he must take these instructions and follow the principles. In Bhakti-rasämrta-sindhu, Sréla Rüpa Gosvämi says that if one poses himself as advanced in spiritual life but does not refer to the srutis and smrtis he is simply a disturbance in society. One should follow the principles laid down in çrutis and småtis not only in one’s spiritual life but in material life as well. As far as human society is concerned, it should follow the Manu-smiti as well, for these laws are given by Manu, the father of mankind.

In the Manu-småti it is stated that a woman should not be given independence, but should be given protection by her father, husband and elderly sons. In all circumstances a woman should remain dependent upon some guardian. Presently women are given full independence like men, but actually we can see that such independent women are no happier than those women who are placed under guardians. If people follow the injunctions given by the great sages, çrutis and småtis, they can actually be happy in both this life and the next. Unfortunately rascals are manufacturing so many ways and means to be happy. Everyone is inventing so many methods. Consequently human society has lost the standard ways of life, both materially and spiritually, and as a result people are bewildered, and there is no peace or happiness in the world. Although they are trying to solve the problems of human society in the United Nations, they are still baffled. Because they do not follow the liberated instructions of the Vedas, they are unhappy.

Two significant words used in this verse are asmin and amuñmin. Asmin means “in this life,” and amuñmin means “in the next life.” Unfortunately in this age, even exalted professors and learned men believe that there is no next life and that everything is finished in this life. Since they are rascals and fools, what advice can they give? Still they are passing as learned scholars and professors. In this verse the word amuñmin is very explicit. It is the duty of everyone to mold his life in such a way that he will have a profitable next life. Just as a boy is educated in order to become happy later, one should be educated in this life in order to attain an eternal and prosperous life after death. It is therefore essential that people follow what is given in the çrutis and småtis to make sure that the human mission is successful.

Manu-samhita it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean that they are kept as slaves. The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world.  (BG 16.17)

In this verse the word pumscali refers to a woman who is easily carried away by men. Such a woman is never to be trusted. Unfortunately, in the present age, women are never controlled. According to the directions of the sastras, women are never to be given freedom. When a child, a woman must be strictly controlled by her father. When she is young, she must be strictly controlled by her husband, and when she is old, she must be controlled by her elderly sons. (5.6.4)

The bogus saviors do not care for bona fide knowledge received from qualified brahmanas and Vedic sources. Their only business is indulging in sex and recommending sexual freedom even for widows. (5.14 Summary)

If women are given freedom to mingle with men like equals, which they now claim to be, they cannot keep their propriety. The nature of a woman, as personally described by Urvasi, is to establish false friendship with someone and then seek new male companions, one after another, even if this means giving up the company of a sincere well-wisher.(9.14.38)

 Women cannot properly utilize freedom, and it is better for them to remain dependent. A woman cannot be happy if she is independent. That is a fact. In Western countries we have seen many women very unhappy simply for the sake of independence. That independence is not recommended by the Vedic civilization or by the varnasrama-dharma. (TLK Vs 5)

Just like children should not be given freedom, similarly, woman should not be given freedom. They should be given all protection. That is our Vedic culture. (BG Lecture Ahmedabad, December 8, 1972)

 Women should not be given freedom. They must be protected. Not that if... Sometimes we receive the complaint in foreign countries, they say that "You keep your women like slaves." I replied, "We do not keep our women as slaves. They're very respectful at home. The sons offer their highest respect to the mother. The husband gives the topmost protection to the wife."(SB 1.7.43  Vrndavana, October 3, 1976)

In the Western countries, the women are given freedom like man, but that is unnatural. Unnatural. Therefore these poor souls are being exploited by the other section. It is a great deficiency of the Western sociology.( SB 1.15.20 Los Angeles, November 30, 1973)

I have seen in our country and the Western countries, the woman are given freedom. By such freedom they are not happy. It is a fact. It is a fact. Therefore Vedic system is that it is the father's duty when a girl is mature, before attaining puberty, she is handed over to a suitable boy, "Please take charge of her. This girl..." Our marriage system is that "So long she was under my charge. Now I..." This is the process. So women, by nature they should remain subordinate. It does not mean, "Because somebody is my subordinate, therefore I shall cut his throat or her throat." (SB 1.15.34 Los Angeles, December 12, 1973)

 Similarly, woman also should be taken care of. They should not be given freedom. That is not good for them. They should be protected by the father in childhood, by the husband in youthhood, and by the grown-up children in old age. Three stages. But in this age, women are trying to take independence of father, husband or children. That is not good. That is described in the sastra. (SB 1.16.19 Hawaii, January 15, 1974)

 Practically, there is no criminal charge against them-against a brähmaëa, against a woman, a child. Suppose a child steals something. Who is going to prosecute him? It is not taken very seriously. So they require protection. They should not be given freedom. Like a child, he is not given freedom, similarly freedom... Of course, there is. Protection means to some extent no freedom. If I want to protect the child, then I sometimes say, "Don't do this." That is one of the items of the protection. (SB 1.16.21 Los Angeles,
July 11, 1974)

Prabhupada: I condemn everyone, that "You are all dogs and hogs." And United Nations a pack of dogs barking. That's a fact. And in Chicago I said, all women, "You cannot have freedom. You have got only thirty-four-ounce brain, and man has got sixty-four-ounce." I told them. So I became a subject of very great criticism.
Trivikrama: Women's liberation.
Prabhupada: I denied, "No, you cannot have." I told them. One girl in the airship, she was seeing like (makes some gesture-laughter). I asked her, "Give me 7-Up." "It is locked now." So I frankly said that "No, no. You cannot have equal rights because your brain is thirty-four ounce." Actually that's a fact. Where is woman philosopher, mathematician, scientist? Not a single.
Dr. Patel: Apart from that, I mean, they are made for a particular mission.
Prabhupada: How they can have equal rights? Up to date in the history there is not a single woman who is a great scientist or great philosopher or great...
Dr. Patel: Madame Curie was a...
Prabhupada: All bogus. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You are getting too harsh on them because...
Prabhupada: No, no. How can I give you equal rights, because your brain is less substance.
Dr. Patel: We cannot degrade our mothers that way. Prabhupada: It is not degrading. It is accepting the actual fact. Dr. Patel: These girls are misled, these American girls. (Morning Walk January 9, 1977, Bombay)

Prabhupada: Women should be taken care of-as daughter, as wife, as mother, bas. No freedom. Then prostitution. Then spoiled the whole thing. Unwanted children, contraceptive, abortion. Very dangerous. In our society there are girls. They should live separately. They should be given full engagement, taken care of. No mixing. Then it will spoil. Both of them will be... We see big, big workers, sannyasis. (Name withheld) fell victim. The example is given: fire and butter. (laughs) You cannot say the butter will not melt even in fire. Woman is like fire, and man is like butter. (Morning Conversation April 30, 1977, Bombay)

A woman is compared to a doll (darumayi) because she has no independence. She should always be controlled by a man. Still, due to false prestige, a class of women wants to remain independent. (5.18.26)

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.17
Los Angeles, September 22, 1972

Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.)
dhanvantaram dvadasamam
trayodasamam eva ca
apayayat suran anyan
mohinya mohayan striya

Translation: "In the twelfth incarnation, the Lord appeared as Dhanvantari, and in the thirteenth He allured the atheists by the charming beauty of a woman and gave nectar to the demigods to drink."

Prabhupada: This is very interesting verse. (laughs) (laughter) To have very charming wife is not very good. And in your country you have got all charming wife. Canakya Pandita says that there are four kinds of enemies in family life. These are very experienced version. He says, mata satru. In family means we live with father, mother, wife, children. This is family. In your country family does not mean father-mother, only wife and children. But in our country, according to Vedic civilization, family is a large conception. Father, mother, brother, sister, sister's son, brother's son. If there are difficulty, one has to su... So on the whole, father, mother, wife and children, consisting of, family.

Now Canakya Pandita says, "In the family there are enemies." How? Rna-karta pita satruh. Canakya Pandita said, "A father who is a great debtor, he is enemy." Because the son inherits the money of the father, similarly, the law is that if the father dies a debtor, the son becomes responsible to pay the debts. That is the law, Manu-samhita. I do not know what is the law here. I don't think the son is responsible for paying the debts of father, but in India that is the law. One big barrister, Mr. C. R. Das, his father died insolvent, making debts. So when he became very rich, he called all the creditors and paid five to five, that "My father was debtor. You take this money." That is obligation. Therefore Canakya Pandita says, "The father who dies a debtor, he is an enemy." Rna-karta pita satruh. Rna means debts. Karta means one who has committed so many debts and dies. A father... Instead of enjoying father's property, he has to pay the father's debts. So therefore that father is called enemy. Rna-karta pita satrur mata satrur vyabhicarini. "And mother, if she marries for the second time, she is enemy." Rna-karta pita satrur mata satrur vyabhicarini, rupavati bharyah satruh. "And very beautiful wife, she is enemy." And putrah satrur apanditah. "And if the son is a fool, rascal, he is enemy." Four kinds of enemy in the family.

So I think I have spoken about my own life. You know that I was a married man. So after being married, I did not like my wife. (laughter) Somehow or other, I did not like. I must say she is very faithful, very everything... Everyone praised. But I did not like, somehow or other. So I was preparing for next marriage. Next marriage. Because in India, at that time it was allowed, a man can marry more than one wife. Now the law is there. So my father, he was a saintly person. So he called me one day and said, "My dear boy, you are trying to marry again. I request you don't do that. You do not like your wife. That is a great fortune for you." (laughter) So I gave up that idea of marrying. Yes. So now I am realizing my father's blessing, yes, that if I would have been too much attached to my wife, then I could not have come to this position. That's a fact. So by ethical point of view, from spiritual point of view, to become too much attached to wife is an impediment for spiritual advancement.

Therefore it is said that anyan, apayayat suran anyan mohinya mohayan striya. Those who are sura, demigods, they were given the nectar, and others... Others means opposite number of suran, or asuran, the atheist or the demons. They were enchanted by the beautiful form of Mohini. Krsna's another incarnation is female, Mohini, charming-so much charming that even Lord Siva was after the girl. Lord Siva, he is supposed to be dhira, but he became charmed, and he was after that girl. So when Krsna... Krsna is already beautiful, but when He takes the shape of a woman, how beautiful He became, we can just imagine. Woman are naturally beautiful. They are called "fair sex." So mohinya. So this Mohini, this attractive feature of woman, is advantage and disadvantage also. It requires simply handling. Then it is advantage. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu played this play, Mohini role... Caitanya Mahaprabhu was playing drama. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very beautiful. He took the part of this Mohini-murti. And she was dancing with the pot of nectar. So all the devotees, they offered their obeisances, because Mohini-murti means God's incarnation. So "My dear Lord, Your this murti, this form, this charming form, is somewhere raksasi." Raksasi means, what is called, witches? Or the female demon. "And somewhere You are goddess of fortune."

So the wife... Never mind. Generally, beautiful wife means everyone's wife is beautiful. Unless one sees his wife beautiful, he cannot become a householder. You see? I think I did not see my wife beautiful. Therefore I had to take sannyasa. (laughter) But generally, every one sees his wife beautiful. There was a great poet in Bengal, Bankima Candra. He used to say that everyone has got right to say his wife beautiful. That means the wife may be beautiful or not beautiful to others' eye, but the husband's eyes it must be beautiful. Otherwise there cannot be husband. So the fact is that our householder life is not a platform of being attracted by woman or by wife. No. Wife is not accepted for sex satisfaction, being attracted by her. No. Therefore wife is called dharma-patni. Dharma-patni. Dharma-patni means a religious wife, or husband and wife should execute religious life, spiritual cultivation. That is the purpose of becoming householder. Grhastha-asrama. Not that I become attracted by wife and I become absorbed in simply sex relation and forget my real duty, Krsna consciousness. That is dangerous. So generally, if one's wife becomes very beautiful, he forgets his real duty, Krsna consciousness, and he simply becomes a pet servant of the wife. That is the... Therefore Rupa Gosvami says, anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah. One should not be attracted for sex life. Yatharham upayunjatah. But does it mean that husband will not have sex. No. Yatharham. As it is required. As it required means sex life with wife should be performed only for begetting a Krsna conscious child. Nothing more. No more attraction. That life is better. That life means not only better. That is the ideal life. Wife and husband, combination, both should make progress in Krsna consciousness.

WOMAN, THEY ARE GENERALLY EQUIPPED WITH THE QUALITIES OF PASSION AND IGNORANCE. AND MEN ALSO MAY BE, BUT MAN CAN BE ELEVATED TO THE PLATFORM OF GOODNESS. WOMAN CANNOT BE. WOMAN CANNOT BE. THEREFORE IF THE HUSBAND IS NICE AND THE WOMAN FOLLOWS, WOMAN BECOMES FAITHFUL AND CHASTE TO THE HUSBAND, THEN THEIR BOTH LIFE BECOMES SUCCESSFUL. THERE ARE THREE QUALITIES OF NATURE: SATTVA, RAJAS, TAMAS. SO RAJAS, TAMAS GENERALLY, THAT IS THE QUALITY OF WOMAN. AND MAN CAN BECOME TO THE PLATFORM OF GOODNESS. THEREFORE INITIATION, BRAHMINICAL SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION IS GIVEN TO THE MAN, NOT TO THE WOMAN. THIS IS THE THEORY. THEREFORE THE COMBINATION SHOULD BE THAT THE HUSBAND SHOULD BE FIRST-CLASS DEVOTEE, KRSNA CONSCIOUS, AND WOMAN SHOULD BE, WOMAN SHOULD BE DEVOTED TO THE HUSBAND, FAITHFUL, SO THAT SHE WOULD HELP THE HUSBAND TO MAKE PROGRESS IN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN THEIR BOTH LIFE IS SUCCESSFUL. Otherwise, if the husband simply becomes captivated by the charming beauty of woman and engages himself in the sex life, then his life is lost, and the woman, they are less intelligent, unless they are guided by proper husband, her life is also lost. So those who are not demigods... Here it is said, apayayat suran. Sura-asura. Sura, those who are not developed to Krsna consciousness, they are asura. SO EVERY HUSBAND SHOULD BE A SURA. SURA MEANS DEVOTEE. And every woman should be religious. Religious means to become chaste, faithful to the husband. And the husband should become a devotee. Then both of them will make progress in Krsna consciousness and that is the perfection of life.


brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
 [Bg. 18.54]

So without being brahma-bhuta, that "I am spirit soul," Krsna consciousness does not become very perfect. If we are in the bodily concept of life, then it is rather difficult. It will take time. Because unless you come to the platform to understand that you are not this body, you are spirit soul, the actual devotional service does not begin. But to the neophyte student, the chance is given to develop this devotional service: sravanam kirtanam smaranam arcanam vandanam dasyam. The method is by constantly being engaged in devotional service, one becomes realized soul. God helps him, Krsna helps him. Then he becomes a perfect, liberated soul. Liberated soul means hitva anyatha-rupam. Now we are working under the designation of this body. Everyone is working under this designation of this body. When we become above the designation of the body, that is our real, constitutional position. So first of all, to realize that "I am not this body," and the next stage is that "I am spirit soul, part and parcel of Krsna. Therefore as part and parcel is meant for giving service to the whole, therefore my constitutional position is to serve Krsna." That is perfection of life.
Thank you very much. (end)

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Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.13

Los Angeles, September 18, 1972

Prabhupada: So senses are so strong. Balavan indriya-gramah. It is prohibited. What to speak of others. Therefore, the common moral teachings and the Vedic civilization is to accept any woman except his own wife as mother. Matrvat para-daresu. Para-daresu. Everyone is supposed to be married. Dara means wife. Para-daresu, other's wife. It doesn't matter if she is younger or older, but she should be treated as mother. Therefore it is the system in Vedic culture, as soon as one sees another woman, she (he) addresses her, "mother," Mataji. Immediately, "mother." That makes the relationship. The woman treats the unknown man as son, and the unknown man treats the unknown woman as mother. This is Vedic civilization. So we should be very careful. In our society, you are all Godbrothers, Godsisters. Or those who are married, they are like mothers. So you should be very careful. Then you will remain dhira, sober. That is brahminical qualification, brahminical culture. Not that "Because I have got facilities to intermingle with nice girls, so I shall take advantage and exploit them." Or the girls should take... No.
Therefore our restriction: no illicit sex.


So dhiranam vartma. BECAUSE PEOPLE MUST BE FIRST OF ALL GENTLE. THEN TALK OF KRSNA AND GOD CONSCIOUSNESS. If he is animal, what he can understand? Thisis Vedic system. Dhiranam. Dhira means must be gentle, perfectly gentle. Must address all woman as "mother." Matrvat para-daresu para-dravyesu lostravat. This is the training, that one should consider other's wife as mother, and others' money as like garbage in the street. Nobody cares for it. Similarly, one's other's money should not be touched. Even it is somebody has forgotten his purse, moneybag on the street, nobody will touch it. Let the man come back and take it. That is civilization. Para-dravyesu lostravat, atmavat sarva-bhutesu. And treating all other living entities as oneself. If somebody pinches me, I feel pain. Why shall I pinch other? If somebody cuts my throat, I become so sorry or so aggrieved. Why shall I cut the throat of other animals? This is civilization. This is Vedic civilization. And not that go on killing animals like anything and hunt upon the woman, topless woman, make business. This is not civilization. This is not human civilization.

Therefore it is called dhiranam. Those who are sober, for them. Those who are rascals, not for them. The brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha sarvasrama, asrama, this is meant for the gentle class, not for the rascals. First of all, training period as brahmacari. This brahmacari, he is taught. He is taught to address all women as "mother." The brahmacari goes to collect alms from door to door. Small boys. So how do they address? "Mother, kindly give us some alms." So immediately the household wife should come and give them.

They will collect like that, for spiritual master. So if a boy is taught...
Just like our these children are being taught chanting Hare Krsna. They are chanting. They cannot forget throughout life. Similarly, if a brahmacari is taught from childhood, from boyhood address all woman as "mother," he cannot see otherwise. "S(he) is my mother." I REMEMBER, IT IS AN EXAMPLE. LONG AGO, SAY, IN 1925, LONG AGO, SO WE WERE IN A CINEMA HOUSE. SO MY ELDEST SON, AS SOON AS HE WOULD SEE ONE WOMAN IN THE PICTURE, "HERE IS ANOTHER MOTHER! HERE IS ANOTHER MOTHER!" (LAUGHTER) HE WOULD CRY. BECAUSE A SMALL CHILD, HE DOES NOT KNOW ANY WOMAN EXCEPT MOTHER. HE KNOWS EVERYONE AS "MY MOTHER." SO IF WE TRAIN FROM THE CHILDHOOD THAT "YOU SHOULD TREAT ALL WOMAN AS MOTHER," THEN WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF ANOMALIES? NO. THERE IS NO QUESTION. SO ONE SHOULD BE TRAINED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING HOW TO BECOME GENTLE. From the very beginning if one is taught to become ungentle, uncontrolled of senses, how at the end he can become gentle? And if the people are not gentle, how you can expect peace and prosperity? Therefore we see in your country, every house: "Beware of dog. Don't come here." Because... What is that? Because they cannot trust anybody. Anybody.

So this is not advancement of civilization. If you want to know what is civilization, you have to learn here: dhiranam. In the Bhagavata the description is there. So actually, Vedic civilization is meant for the most gentle, highly advanced, not for the cats and dogs.
Thank you very much. (end)

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From Manu Samhita:

 55. Women must be honoured and adorned by their fathers,
 brothers, husbands, and brothers-in-law, who desire (their own)
 56. Where women are honoured, there the gods are pleased; but where they
 are not honoured, no sacred rite yields rewards.
 57. Where the female relations live in grief, the family soon
 wholly perishes; but that family where they are not unhappy ever
 58. The houses on which female relations, not being duly
 honoured, pronounce a curse, perish completely, as if destroyed by magic.
 59. Hence men who seek (their own) welfare, should always honour women on
 holidays and festivals with (gifts of) ornaments, clothes, and (dainty)
 60. In that family, where the husband is pleased with his wife and the
 wife with her husband, happiness will assuredly be lasting. 61. For if the
 wife is not radiant with beauty, she will not attract her husband; but if
 she has no attractions for him, no
 children will be born.
 62. If the wife is radiant with beauty, the whole house is
 bright; but if she is destitute of beauty, all will appear dismal.


 349. In their own defence, in a strife for the fees of
 officiating priests, and in order to protect women and Brahmanas; he who
 (under such circumstances) kills in the cause of right, commits no sin.
 356. He who addresses the wife of another man at a Tirtha,
 outside the village, in a forest, or at the confluence of rivers, suffer
 (the punishment for) adulterous acts (samgrahana).
 357. Offering presents (to a woman), romping (with her), touching her
 ornaments and dress, sitting with her on a bed, all (these acts) are
 considered adulterous acts (samgrahana).
 358. If one touches a woman in a place (which ought) not (to be touched)
 or allows (oneself to be touched in such a spot), all (such acts done)
 with mutual consent are declared (to be) adulterous (samgrahana).
 359. A man who is not a Brahmana ought to suffer death for adultery
 (samgrahana); for the wives of all the four castes even must always be
 carefully guarded.
 361. Let no man converse with the wives of others after he has been
 forbidden (to do so); but he who converses (with them), in spite of a
 prohibition, shall be fined one suvarna.
 363. Yet he who secretly converses with such women [the wives of actors
 and singers] , or with
 female slaves kept by one (master), and with female ascetics, shall be
 compelled to pay a small fine.
 364. He who violates an unwilling maiden shall instantly suffer corporal

 367. But if any man through insolence forcibly contaminates a
 maiden, two of his fingers shall be instantly cut off, and he shall pay a
 fine of six hundred (panas).


 1. I will now propound the eternal laws for a husband and his
 wife who keep to the path of duty, whether they be united or
 2. Day and night woman must be kept in dependence by the males (of) their
 (families), and, if they attach themselves to sensual enjoyments, they
 must be kept under one's control.
 3. Her father protects (her) in childhood, her husband protects (her) in
 youth, and her sons protect (her) in old age; a woman is never fit for
 4. Reprehensible is the father who gives not (his daughter in
 marriage) at the proper time; reprehensible is the husband who
 approaches not (his wife in due season), and reprehensible is the son who
 does not protect his mother after her husband has died.
 5. Women must particularly be guarded against evil inclinations, however
 trifling (they may appear); for, if they are not guarded, they will bring
 sorrow on two families.
 6. Considering that the highest duty of all castes, even weak
 husbands (must) strive to guard their wives.
 7. He who carefully guards his wife, preserves (the purity of) his
 offspring, virtuous conduct, his family, himself, and his (means of
 acquiring) merit.
 8. The husband, after conception by his wife, becomes an embryo and is
 born again of her; for that is the wifehood of a wife (gaya), that he is
 born (gayate) again by her.
 9. As the male is to whom a wife cleaves, even so is the son whom she
 brings forth; let him therefore carefully guard his wife, in order to keep
 his offspring pure.

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The Feminist Polemic

Without getting into all the  details presented in papers regarding what Prabhupada did or did not allow his female disciples to do, we will examine the underlying philosophy and prominent statements of fact made by the feminists as a group.

1.  Spiritual equality justifies occupational equality.  Spiritual equality obviates the need to follow the rules and regulations of varnasrama dharma.

2. Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya followed this principle by magnanimously offering Krsna consciousness to everyone, regardless of gender, race, religion, age, social status or any material distinction.

3. Prabhupada personally introduced and applied a policy of occupational engagement according to qualification with absolutely no consideration for gender.  He desired that this policy apply within ISKCON for its entire duration.

4. Prabhupada did not want ISKCON to completely revive Vedic cultural but only to  partially do so.  A complete revival of Vedic culture would be completely anachronistic and impede our movement" of spreading Krsna consciousness.

5. Prabhupada compromised  Vedic tradition not only as a short term adjustment for preaching purposes but a permanent policy change for all members of ISKCON.

6. Prabhupada felt that ISKCON must adapt to the changing role of modern western womanhood.    A further introduction of Vedic cultural traditions and ideals into ISKCON, would contravene Prabhupada's wishes and will reduce the universal spirituality of ISKCON to the level of a sect.  ISKCON will subsequently lose its ability to make any meaningful contribution to the vital issues of our time.

7. Perpetual gender moral adaptation is required even of those traditions sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada due to the relentless increase in the modern woman's role and contribution to the world.

8. Changes to these original standards of gender equality were made by the leading men ISKCON without Prabhupada's knowledge, approval or consent.

9. The many exceptions within our heritage of Vaisnava culture question the conservatives' interpretation of Vedic morality and supports the feminists' claim that gender equality in occupational duties is in fact traditional. Another way of putting it is that these traditions constantly adapt according to time, place and circumstance.

Jivan Mukta dasa 1998.

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A looking into history:

Just a few reflections on some of the things about women's positions is society today from a bit of a social historical background.

What we have seen escalate over this century in to the "women's suffrage movement", "women's rights movement", "women's liberation movement", etc., have come about as a result of abnormalities in society.

Many of the ways that people have chosen to live in the west are either direct results of, or indirect results of manipulations of unruly colonialists/discoverers, etc. Who due to situations in Europe, and the British Isles at the time with the ruling classes, landowners, etc. Created a situation by which they would go out into the "new world" to colonise, and create places that would be able to send food (primarily meat - sheep and cattle) back to an old world that had recently changed their policy on directives for farming.

Due to pressure by the ruling classes, many of the squires and land owners were forces to change the kind of farming that they did. Formerly is what is generally rather negatively termed "Feudal times"(by the powers that be) the system would be much as it had been in most parts of the world for many thousands of years, as suggested in Kautiliyas Artha shastra - most people would live on the land, they would have some few acres, which if they didn't own personally they could rent from the land owner for a small or at least reasonable fee. That land owner would also take some produce from them in the form of taxes, etc. For which in times when things may have been less plentiful he would look after the tenants/peasants/people in his care.

Even in the west there were the church, who were much similar to the Brahmins, wealthy merchants who were the Vaishyas, the lords and squires, etc., who were the Kshatriyas, etc., and the common folk. In time when the church underwent serious difficulties, became more materially orientated, and couldn't guide the Kshatriyas any more, but rather took to compromising with them on the basis that if you go out and spread Christianity all over the world, we will support your policies here in Europe and the British Isles.(it wasn't exactly like that but pretty close).

The land owners then had pressure put on them to change their farming habits to beef and sheep, and a few cash crops instead of allowing people to work the land. At the same time orchestrated by similar figures in the ruling classes to "assist" the influx of people to the newly forming and expanding cities of northern Europe evolved the "Industrial revolution".

Now as people worked in horrendous conditions for little or next to no pay, or in the numerous work houses that appeared social and gender discrimination came about as a means of observatory work testing. Children and women, and the elderly got paid less, etc.

Then came the social ills of wars that absorbed the men-folk of the era, to become cannon fodder for a few families that controlled much of the wealth and power of the time.

The women folk had an extremely hard time, and had to hold the fort, while they watched their men folk go off to war, after war. The women in many cases carried the entire countries, working the field, running munitions, hospitals, even driving vehicles, etc.

As a result of noting their worth a push came for the right to express their opinion (the Vote), etc., and they got it.

In Vedic times when the men returned from wars, etc., or after social upheaval, when the dust again settled the women folk returned to their duties of looking after the infrastructure running of the home. Thus again giving a stability and security to society and in the family.

What happened in the west due to no direction of Brahmins, financially manipulated world depressions, and a preoccupation of the thought of work, and putting a meal on the table, and the unions pressure etc., to achieve that. And with the new philosophies of socialism and communism and their push for social equality, an abnormally took over in the form of empowerment of unqualified shudras and women to do, and enjoy life as they liked. In fact it was the churches disempowerment by socialism and communism, and the new liberalism of the governments, influences by sociological theorists that allowed this all to happen.

As Srila Prabhupad points out many men then recognised that they "were onto a good thing" - the women will share the work load, carry half the weight on everything, and maybe even pay the bill. Sexually women became more vulnerable, being subjected to the War machine's foot soldiers either occupying their country, or in the case of some countries the flamboyant, and affluent US forces attracted the women of the Allies to associate with them loosely while their own men were away in the Front fighting, etc.

In the years that followed the second world war many western governments encouraged their citizens to produce children, giving them houses, or reduced mortgages, or other benefits for however many children they had. Issues of sexuality changed dramatically of the next few decades, to the point where skirts got shorter, parts of the body became more exposed, and vocal expression on any basis, or topic had become an equivocal right!!!

Due to the taste that was gained by women in their unprotected state (especially during the war years, and just after) to accept full employment away from the home, etc. The structure and stability of the family institution began to crumble. 'Mum' was there any more when the children got home from school, or was so preoccupied with her own career so as not to be able to give the quality time that children needed as they grow up, in the early years. Mum's develop interests outside the home, often dressing provocatively in the presence of other men, and a new form of disempowerment comes about. This time disempowerment of the family, and primarily of the institution of marriage.

Over the sixties the turn away from marriage was very high, many people opting for the new "defacto" situation, that required little commitment, other than the two agreeing to live and share sense gratification together.

The reflections that this caused, and reactions that developed in the average family structure on ordinary people is/was heart breaking. Today so many people either have no intention of getting involved in marriage, or they are on their fifth or sixth marriages, carrying an equal number of children from each relationship.

With the loosening of moral and especially sexual laws and demoniac perversions to nature (as cited in the SB 3:20:26 Purport) in the form of non-productive homosexuality, designed for exploitation of the senses only, has now become not only legal but an option taught in schools. Now, the most ridiculous event of the recent historical past is the notion of same sex marriages, again a fruitless event unnatural in its every conception.

Why has this all come about??? Because of the Brahmins.

Where the Brahmins cannot give good guidance due to wishy-washy liberalism by the empowerment of Shudraism / Communism (based on artificial totalitarian equality of speech) society will remain on its knees, with broken legs.

We NEED strong leaders that can direct the masses of people, both inside our Iskcon society, and the masses in general. Or where does everyone turn??? To the academic nonsense's in what Srila Prabhupad called the slaughterhouses of youth.

So much of what we hear today in our movement, and in the mundane society in general are the whimsical overtones of sensual exploitation, based on the misconception that we are the body.

The sooner we can re-instil/re-instate Daivi Varnashram Dharma based on Vaishnava shastra over-seen by Vaishnava Brahmins, the quicker these social ills of the ignorance of gender functionality, familial functionality, community functionality, social functionality, and cultural and religious functionality will all fall back into place. But functionality is the operative word, presently dysfunctionality on the basis of preference seems to be predominant. Preference means what the senses like! The senses are like children, they need guidance, they don't know how to discriminate what is right from wrong they chose anything that seems to give some pleasure now, without seeing the long term consequences.

This too, has been the case over the reference of time that we talk of  here. The discriminatory power has been lost, and those who don't have it are empowered to go out and choose what they want to do.
Thus the fulfilment of Bhagavad Gita's prophecy has come true for all to see;

adharmäbhibhavät kåñëa
praduñyanti kula-striyaù
stréñu duñöäsu värñëeya
jäyate varëa-saìkaraù

When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrshni, comes unwanted progeny.(Bhagavad Gita 1:40.)

Srila Prabhupada's PURPORT - Good population in human society is the basic principle for peace, prosperity and spiritual progress in life. The varnashrama religion’s principles were so designed that the good population would prevail in society for the general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. As children are very prone to be misled, women are similarly very prone to degradation. Therefore, both children and women require protection by the elder members of the family. By being engaged in various religious practices, women will not be misled into adultery. According to Chanakya Pandita, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy. So the different family traditions of religious activities should always engage them, and thus their chastity and devotion will give birth to a good population eligible for participating in the varnashrama system. On the failure of such varnashrama-dharma, naturally the women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood the human race at the risk of war and pestilence.

saìkaro narakäyaiva
kula-ghnänäà kulasya ca
patanti pitaro hy eñäà

An increase of unwanted population certainly causes hellish life both for the family and for those who destroy the family tradition. The ancestors of such corrupt families fall down, because the performances for offering them food and water are entirely stopped.(Bhagavad Gita 1:41.)

Srila Prabhupada's PURPORT
According to the rules and regulations of fruitive activities, there is a need to offer periodical food and water to the forefathers of the family. This offering is performed by worship of Vishnu, because eating the remnants of food offered to Vishnu can deliver one from all kinds of sinful actions. Sometimes the forefathers may be suffering from various types of sinful reactions, and sometimes some of them cannot even acquire a gross material body and are forced to remain in subtle bodies as ghosts. Thus, when remnants of prasädam food are offered to forefathers by descendants, the forefathers are released from ghostly or other kinds of miserable life. Such help rendered to forefathers is a family tradition, and those who are not in devotional life
are required to perform such rituals. One who is engaged in the devotional life is not required to perform such actions. Simply by performing devotional service, one can deliver hundreds and thousands of forefathers from all kinds of misery. It is stated in the Srimad Bhägavatam (11.5.41):

devarñi-bhütäpta-nåëäà pitèëäà
na kiìkaro näyam åëé ca räjan
sarvätmanä yaù çaraëaà çaraëyaà
gato mukundaà parihåtya kartam

"Anyone who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Mukunda, the giver of liberation, giving up all kinds of obligation, and has taken to the path in all seriousness, owes neither duties nor obligations to the demigods, sages, general living entities, family members, humankind or forefathers." Such obligations are automatically fulfilled by performance of devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

doñair etaiù kula-ghnänäà
utsädyante jäti-dharmäù
kula-dharmäç ca çäçvatäù

By the evil deeds of those who destroy the family tradition and thus give rise to unwanted children, all kinds of community projects and family welfare activities are devastated.(Bhagavad Gita 1:42.)

Srila Prabhupada's PURPORT
Community projects for the four orders of human society, combined with family welfare activities, as they are set forth by the institution of sanätana-dharma, or varnashrama-dharma, are designed to enable the human being to attain his ultimate salvation. Therefore, the breaking of the sanätana-dharma tradition by irresponsible leaders of society brings about chaos in that society, and consequently people forget the aim of life - Vishnu. Such leaders are called blind, and persons who follow such leaders are sure to be led into chaos.

manuñyäëäà janärdana
narake niyataà väso
bhavatéty anuçuçruma

O Krsna, maintainer of the people, I have heard by disciplic succession
that those who destroy family traditions dwell always in hell.(Bhagavad Gita 1:43.)

Srila Prabhupada's PURPORT
Arjuna bases his argument not on his own personal experience, but on what he has heard from the authorities. That is the way of receiving real knowledge. One cannot reach the real point of factual knowledge without being helped by the right person who is already established in that knowledge. There is a system in the varnashrama institution by which before death one has to undergo the process of atonement for his sinful activities. One who is always engaged in sinful activities must utilise the process of atonement called the präyashcitta. Without doing so, one surely will be transferred to hellish planets to undergo miserable lives as the result of sinful activities.

aho bata mahat päpaà
kartuà vyavasitä vayam
yad räjya-sukha-lobhena
hantuà sva-janam udyatäù

Alas, how strange it is that we are preparing to commit greatly sinful acts. Driven by the desire to enjoy royal happiness, we are intent on killing our own kinsmen.(Bhagavad Gita 1:44.)

Srila Prabhupada's PURPORT
Driven by selfish motives, one may be inclined to such sinful acts as the killing of one’s own brother, father or mother. There are many such instances in the history of the world. But Arjuna, being a saintly devotee of the Lord, is always conscious of moral principles and therefore takes care to avoid such activities.

What to speak of such social ingress as killing children in the womb, or propagation of immoral principles contrary to that of human life to the masses of people to further degrade themselves in unnatural, and sinful acts.
I humbly pray in the same way that great devotees have prayed for the great social and spiritual reformers to come (ie., Sripad Madhwacarya, Sri Chaitanya, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and our Srila Prabhupad, etc.) that by my humble prayer in the form of this message, that someone will take head of what I have said here. And put things back on track......!

yhs, JTCd

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