Bombay, December 17, 1975
Dr. Patel: They are under the care of great maya, mah-maya.
Dr. Patel: ...is sitting in the building, of all the Birlas.
Prabhupada: Not Birlas, everyone. (laughing)
Dr. Patel: (also laughing) I don't know, sir. But I... I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told you, the Congress, when I was a member of Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.
Prabhupada: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under...
Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our verdict. Mudha. We understand from Bhagavad-gita...
Dr. Patel: Why mudha, sir. Mudhatamah!
Prabhupada: Yes, vimudha. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja says not only mudha but vimudha; visesa-mudha especifical. Prahladah Maharaja says the same thing: tato vimukha-cetasa. Vimukha cetasa means one who does not accept Krsna as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking of desires. Who are this? Those who are nondevotees, one who does not surrender to Krsna. Tato vimukha-cetasa. So why you are searching? May-sukhaya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bharam udvahato vimudhan, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Krsna consciousness they are busy in making plans. This is Prahlada Maharaja. And Krsna says they are mudha, vimudha. As soon as you find one, not Krsna conscious, he's immediately mudha, vimudha. Na ma duskrtino mudh prapdyante naradhamah.
Dr. Patel: That knowledge is, I mean, perished by maya.
Prabhupada: Yes. Maya will help you. If you want to forget Krsna, Maya will help you, how you can more and more forget.
Dr. Patel: Maya would help us even for finding out Krsna...
Prabhupada: No. maya...
Dr. Patel: ...because the body is the maya, the mind is maya, and the very mind will help us, sir, that doesn't it help us to go towards Krsna?
Prabhupada: No. That is not maya's help. When you surrender to Krsna, maya will not bother with your business. That means you get relief from maya. You are no more under the jurisdiction of maya. You..., now you are under the jurisdiction of Krsna. That is wanted. maya will trouble you so long you do not go in the jurisdiction of Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. Ye ma prapadyante maya.
Prabhupada: And as soon as you go under the jurisdiction of Krsna, sarva-dharman paritiyaja mam ekam, then there is no jurisdiction of maya. Just like as soon as the sun rises there is no more darkness, automatically. You do not require to dissipate the darkness. As soon as there is sun, everything is light. (aside to passerby:) Hare Krsna. Jaya! Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam eta taranti te. This is the process. It is simple method. To become under the jurisdiction of maya it requires great labor. But to become under the jurisdiction of Krsna, it takes a minute. But these rascals will not do that. Krsna...
Dr. Patel: Because Krsna Himself has made your eyes, all these indriyas outgoing, so...
Prabhupada: Indriya, He has made your eyes to see Krsna, not a prostitute. That is your fault. Krsna has given you eyes to see Him, but you are utilizing to see a prostitute. That is not Krsna's fault; that is your fault. Eyes are not bad. Krsna has given you eyes to see: Krsna. But we are utilizing for other purpose. That is our fault. We are presenting this Krsna's Deity in the temple, but who is coming to utilize his eyes? Nobody is coming. They will go to see cinema, beautiful actress; so they are ultilizing the eyes for this purpose.
Dr. Patel: I have seen the last cinema in '58. "Gone with the Wind."
Prabhupada: Not your eyes...
Dr. Patel: It was "Gone with the Wind."
Prabhupada: So we are misusing everything. Therefore bhakti means stop this misuse. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], that is bhakti. Whatever you have got, utilize it properly. Don't misuse it. That is all the instruction. Kurusva mad-arpanam. Krsna says, "Whatever you are doing with your senses..."
Dr. Patel: ...kaunteya mukta-sanga samacara.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is wanted. The mayavadi philosophers, they are taking because the senses are creating so much trouble, material existence, finish this-sunyavadi. But that will not solve the problem. Problem will be solved that you keep your eyes. You don't require to finish it, but cure it. Just like you medical man. If one is blind out of cataract, you don't say that you pluck it, the eye, and throw it. No. "Please cure it and you'll be able to see." This is the difference between mayavadi philosopher and Vaisnava philosopher. They want to pluck it out, make it zero, sunyavada.
Dr. Patel: Sunyavada.
Prabhupada: No, no. This is the philosophy. Sunyavadi means they want to make it zero. Your are troubling, you have got so much trouble with your eyes: don't bother, pluck it out! This is their philosophy. And our philosophy is, "No, there is no need of plucking out. Just cure it and you'll see." That is...
Dr. Patel: That is what the Kathopanisad teaches us.
Prabhupada: Every Vedic scripture will advise you. You take this Upanisad or that Upanisad; the ultimate is Gitopanisad. The final, Gitopanisad. Yes, Gita is Upanisad.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. That is always mentioned after each of them.
Prabhupada: Yes, Gitopanisad. So Gita is the substance and summary of all Upanisads, and Upanisads means Vedas. That is the Vedic knowledge.
Harikesa: But if you negate "I," there's no question of seeing.
Harikesa: If you negate the "I..."
Prabhupada: The same principle, that "You are seeing. Now kill yourself: you don't see." That's all. The same philosophy. You are seeing and feeling disturbance -- better kill yourself; you'll not see, then all problems solved. This is their advise. Kill yourself. So who will agree to that?
Dr. Patel: Yes, philosophically kill yourself, and get yourself transferred to a different life.
Prabhupada: No, no...
Dr. Patel: I mean not physically, I mean as a philosophical point...
Prabhupada: "Kill" means you finish yourself, no more seeing...
Dr. Patel: Finish your present ego...
Prabhupada: That is your interpretation. Killing means finish everything. Killing does not mean that you will again see. There is not killing.
Harikesa: But you'll just go in another body...
Prabhupada: That is curing. Killing and curing. If you kill yourself, then whole thing is finished. But if you cure yourself, then you see rightly. So we advise cure, not kill. That is our philosophy.
Dr. Patel: You mean cure the ego. Cure the ego.
Prabhupada: No, no. Cure the disease.
Dr. Patel: ...ego is the disease. First disease man is overtaken by.
Prabhupada: False ego, you can say false ego. "I exist"; this is pure ego. I exist, that's a fact, and when we say "I exist for this life, I can finish it, there is no next life," that is not pure ego.
Dr. Patel: That should be the ego of God or the ego of you. (Sanskrit) Whether God's ego or your ego, there cannot be two egos.
Prabhupada: Sama hi, sama hi. You are already sama hi. Sarvam kalv idam brahma. You are already in Brahman. There is no question of samai. The rascal cannot see. They say samai. Why samai? You are already there. You do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, brahma-bhuta prasannatma. I am already here, prasannatma. If you have the false impression that "I am out of brahman," that is, there is question of samai. But if you know that you are already in brahman, then where is the question of samai? Prasannatma. This is real explanation. Brahm-bhuta prasannatma. Now we understand that I am aha brahmasmi. That is real knowledge. I am not this body, I am not American, I am not Indian. Aha brahmasmi...
Dr. Patel: "I am not this body."
Prabhupada: Ah, that is real knowledge. But they are under the impression of this false knowledge. Therefore it is samai. Why samai? You are already there. Krsna says mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. When the sun is there, the sunshine is also there. Always. So you are sunshine and Krsna is sun, so we are already together. But the cloud is there. We are thinking "I am not sunshine; I am cloud." That is misconception. But when we understand that the cloud is no more there, then aha brahmasmi. Brahm-bhuta prasannatma. That is wanted. Under the fool's guidance you are becoming fool. And if we take the real guidance, then we come into the real knowledge. We have created a fool's paradise. Everyone is a fool, and he is promising paradise.
Dr. Patel: This is called living under (indistinct)...
Prabhupada: This is going on. Otherwise why there are so many rascals? (indistinct) The fools make it a fool's paradise. Take Bhagavad-gita as it is. Everything's all right. There is no question...
Dr. Patel: This maya is duratyaya.
Prabhupada: Yes. Then, mam eva... Why don't you surrender? maya will not disturb.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi aside to someone) Sir, then, sama sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhakti labhate param. In your, I mean... That is the highest...
Prabhupada: Yes, that you can say when you are yourself brahma bhuta [SB 4.30.20]. But if you are not brahma bhuta, that is not possible. They are trying to unite everyone in the United Nations, all cats and dogs. They are simply barking. There is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. They'll simply go on barking. And it is an association of dogs barking. That's all. So if you keep them dogs, there is no question of unity. If you bring them to brahman consciousness, aha brahmasmi, then there will be unity.
Dr. Patel: That is that sama sarvesu bhutesu.
Prabhupada: Yes. And then when you are in that stage, then you can become qualified to serve God. Mad-bhakti labhate param. So bhakti is not so easy. Manusyana saharesu kascid yatati siddhaye.
Dr. Patel: It is more difficult than...
Prabhupada: Yes. It is not difficult, but because they are rascals, they made it difficult. Krsna says, "Immediately." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam eka sarana vraja aha tva sarva-papebhyo [Bg. 18.66]. "I'll give you protection-immediately, within a second." But they'll not do that. That is maya. Krsna says that it is so easy that you can become immediately brahma bhuta. Why you should waste time, many, many lives, to come to this conclusion that vasudeva sarvam iti sa mahatm sudurlabhah? Why you should waste your time, many lives? Do it immediately.
Dr. Patel: Sir, we must have wasted our many lives in past, and we have come to this stage, who knows how...
Prabhupada: Hm, we have come to this stage, we are reading Bhagavad-gita. You do it, now. Why you are delaying? If after many, many births I have come to this conclusion, surrender to Krsna, why don't you do it now? That is intelligence. (Hindi about rupees) How rascal he is! (Hindi joke) (laughter) Krsna says, "You give up all your duties and just come to Me. Immediately." (Hindi) These boys, they did it! That's all.
Dr. Patel: We are grateful, sir.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna! Yes... (Hindi) No, our Krsna consciousness movement is the nicest movement. Only intelligent man can take it. It is a fact. It is a fact.
Dr. Patel: Maybe (Hindi).
Prabhupada: Fools, there are all fools; otherwise why the movement is there? The movement is there for correcting the fools. Otherwise there is no need of...
Dr. Patel: So many fools are corrected... (laughing)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna! (Hindi conversation with passerby)
Dr. Patel: One of the renowned poet of Gujarat. His house is right next to the main temple in Dvaraka.
Prabhupada: There was one devotee, he, some Queen or somebody, she was approached by somebody, that two poets are come... Ah, Kalidasa, yes. "Kalidasa poet has come to see you." So she immediately said, "I know only two poets, Vyasadeva and Valmiki, and all other poets I kick out!"
Dr. Patel: This is Ramayana and Mahabharata.
Prabhupada: "I know only two poets." So she refused to see Kalidasa.
Dr. Patel: One Gosvami refused to see Mirabai, and then she said that "There are only be men at the bhajana, not that... Krsna is the only man..."
Prabhupada: One thing is, we don't find any authoritative scripture that Mirabai ever met Rupa Gosvami, but they say like that in Vrndavana. But from the life of Rupa Gosvami, we understand that the Gosvamis were so popular in Vrndavana that if there was any family quarrel, husband and wife, they used to come to Rupa Gosvami to settle up, and automatically he would give the decision, and they would settle up. So how it is possible that he did not see any woman?
Dr. Patel: He did not, ah, Rupa Gosvami or Jiva Gosvami, some other Gosvami, they say.
Giriraja: It was Jiva Gosvami.
Prabhupada: Jiva Gosvami?
Prabhupada: Why Jiva Gosvami should not see woman? That is also doubtful.
Dr. Patel: He, he did see Mirabai.
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu also never refused to see woman. But womans were offering respect from a distance, that's all. Not very near. But we don't see that He refused to see woman. Why the Goswamis will do that?
Dr. Patel: That is the story going round.
Prabhupada: Then pandita sama-darsinah. How it is possible?
Harikesa: There's that story of the one woman who was on His shoulder, on that (sic:) Nrsimha column looking at Lord Jagannatha, and Govinda tried to take her down and Lord Caitanya said no.
Prabhupada: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannatha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and the devotees said, (in an urgent whisper:) "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannatha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee. That's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: Man is very (indistinct) grahi. Mind... I mean Arjuna was told by Bhagavan in sixth ajya, "Mind is so difficult to control..." (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing a wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.
Dr. Patel: I mean the Vaisnavas, sir, sadhus, they are not expected to look at the pictures of women.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is not... Then how Caitanya Mahaprabhu allowed the woman to stand on His shoulder?
Dr. Patel: He is, was a mahaprabhu. Not for us...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is the criterion, that if one is perfect devotee, then it is all right. And so long he is not or she is not perfect devotee, then there is restriction.
Dr. Patel: In the sadhana stage.
Dr. Patel: ...it is the sadhana, completely sadhana (Hindi), then he is, everything is... Sama sarvesu bhutesu.
Prabhupada: For kanistha-adhikari.
Dr. Patel: Sarve samesu bhutesu. We are not sarve sama as yet.
Prabhupada: So it depends on the condition.
Dr. Patel: It is said that they are not only look at the female dolls, or even...
Prabhupada: But that is moral instruction. That is moral instruction. Even if you are not a devotee, you should not think of these things. That is the moral instruction. The brahmacari, if he thinks of woman, that is also retricted.
Dr. Patel: But in eight ways he must observe brahmacarya. Eight ways. All the five senses and the three..., mind (Sanskrit).
Prabhupada: What is the time?
Harikesa: 7.10 a.m.
Prabhupada: So we shall return. (short discussion of actual time)
Dr. Patel: It is 7.20 a.m. You are airport?
Harikesa: Airport time.
Dr. Patel: Airport time is wrong. Every clock is very different time there. Each one has its own standard.
Prabhupada: Some time back when I was a young boy, I went to see a football match in Calcutta. So after finishing, I came walking through the Bentink Street. So I saw one time in the beginning, and I came to my house, some watch, and clock is giving the same time. (pause) We are giving very simple formula: just become Krsna conscious and all problems will be solved. All problems.
Dr. Patel: Very easy formula for all the mudhas.
Dr. Patel: Like us. (laughs raucously)
Prabhupada: The Doctor is...
Dr. Patel: Before you came here... You can say anything...
Prabhupada: This is intelligence. This is not mudha; this is intelligence. Guru mora murkha dekhi' koril sasana. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a fool number one."
Dr. Patel: So you see me also that way...
Prabhupada: No. That means He is intelligent. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was not a fool, that's a fact, but He presented Himself like that. He is most learned, but He presented before guru, "I am useless, worthless." Trnad api sunicena...
Dr. Patel: I myself, sir, we are all (indistinct) not like you, we are worthless, we people. Unless you understand your worth... We are really worthless.
Prabhupada: That is very good. /Trnad api sunicena/ taror api sahisnuna/ amanin manadena/ kirtaniya sad harih. That is the qualification for chanting Hare Krsna. Humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, giving all respect to others, expecting no respect for oneself. These are the qualifications to become perfectly Krsna conscious. Amanitvam adambhitvam ahims ksantir arjavam. Amanitva. Although he is very qualified, he says "No, no, no. I have no qualification." Amanitvam. This is amanitvam. (aside to passerby:) Hare Krsna, Jaya. This is the beginning of knowledge. Amanitvam adambhitvam ahims ksantir arjavam. The materialistic, everyone, they're not amanitvam, our, "I'm so respectful."
Dr. Patel: Not "I have done this."
Prabhupada: No, no. I don't say. This is the philosophy. Amanitvam adambhitvam. Where is that thing? That is taught from the brahmacari. Brahmacari, a small boy, he is taught that you become amanitvam adambhitvam, and he accepts it. Because he is small, the brahmacari, he may becoming from a king's family, but if he's ordered, "My dear boy, take my shoes and brush it," he'll do it, because he's innocent boy. He learns. Therefore brahmacar gurukule vasan danta. The mode of life should be trained from the brahmacari.
Dr. Patel: This British public school, sir, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eaton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...
Prabhupada: No, why not to the...
Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher.
Prabhupada: Some idea...
Dr. Patel: That is great idea.
Prabhupada: No. That is also imperfect. Anyway, it is something. Amanitvam adambhitvam: they from the very beginning of their life, they address other's wife as "mother," you see? Matrvat paridaresu. This is culture, to see every woman except his own wife as mother. Where is that culture?
Man: Mahatm Gandhi also changed his life after brahmacari...
Man: Mahatm Gandhi?
Prabhupada: We are talking of real mahatmas, not politicians.
Man: No, no. He was changing after brahmacari, his life.
Prabhupada: I do not know, but...
Dr. Patel: He took a big vow. He took a big vow at the age of forty-three years. That mahan, mah-vrata, what they call it? For not indulging in sex.
Prabhupada: That is one of the qualification...
Dr. Patel: That is one of them. But by controlling their sex, people derive much (indistinct).
Prabhupada: That is a fact.
Dr. Patel: Because I think woman is the personification of maya. You can say that way. The whole thing is revolving round that.
Prabhupada: But if you become strong, Krsna conscious, it may go away. mayam etam taranti te: there is no more maya.
Dr. Patel: We must be conscious like Mirabai or gopis or big, I mean, like (indistinct). When his wife died he said (Hindi), "I will be able to worship God a better way," when he lost his wife. These are the...
Prabhupada: No, that means he became Krsna conscious after his wife was dead. (laughing) Not before!
Dr. Patel: I mean, that is a saying, I mean...
Prabhupada: Why should I expect the death of my wife?
Dr. Patel: No, his wife died, and he accepted that way. He was not expecting. We are all dead so far as we are Krsna conscious...
Prabhupada: Dhira means in spite of presence of agitation, if one is not agitated, that is dhira. And if I pray that "Here is the cause of agitation. Let her die," that is not very good. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: No, after she died. You have misunderstood me, sir. You are, you are... Even a great bhakta,, a great Vaisnava bhakta, and I mean I, I don't think he would... He would say...
Prabhupada: Why should I pray for somebody's death?
Dr. Patel: He never prayed for her to die. (everyone laughing) He prayed that because now he will have less hindrance in the worship of God. That is what he meant.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is God conscious. Vaisnava, vanch-kalpa-tarubhya ca krp-sindhubhya eva ca. Vaisnava is an ocean of mercy. Why he should, we should expect another death...? No, no, I'm saying... Nobody, no Vaisnava aspires or thinks that "He may be hampered or he may be harmed for my benefit." No.
Dr. Patel: What he says, sir...
Prabhupada: No, no. I am not argument about him. I mean to say, Vaisnava means para-duhkha-duhkhi. Vaisnava should be always duhkhi for others. Vaisnava personally, he has no duhkha. That is Prahlada Maharaja says, naivodhvije para duratyay vaitaranyas tvad-viya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittah, soce tato vimukh-cetasa. They are simply anxious for the persons who are godless. That is their... Even they are godless, even they are enemy of the devotee, still Vaisnava thinks, "How I can correct him?" Not that "He's my enemy. Let him die." "How I shall correct him?" That is Vaisnava, para-duhkha-duhkhi. He is under ignorance, he is talking nonsense -- "How shall I correct him?" That is missionary spirit.
Dr. Patel: Ten minutes. 7.10.
Prabhupada: So we can go. It is very nice movement... (noise) They have paid already some lakhs, hm?
Giriraja: Ashoka gave three lakhs previously for Vrndavana. He said he wants to give more to...
Prabhupada: ...he's devotee.
Devotee: He said he enjoyed the program very much also.
Prabhupada: Who said?
Devotee: Ashoka did.
Prabhupada: Accha? Ashoka's mother said also.
Giriraja: Well, he also, when we were taking dinner, he came up and he said he enjoyed it.
Prabhupada: Yes, he said.
Prabhupada: Therefore they did not put any questions.
Dr. Patel: Yes. It is very difficult to put question to you. (Prabhupada laughs) You mow the opposition down very badly. (laughter)
Prabhupada: It is all Krsna's...
Dr. Patel: I am a shameless man to give questions... (laughs)
Prabhupada: How long did I speak?
Harikesa: Hm, about forty-five minutes.
Prabhupada: That is my standard. (Hindi exchange)
Man: In that Birla house.
Prabhupada: Birla house? Huh.
Giriraja: The program was in the garden.
Man: I was there, in that Birla house.
Prabhupada: You were in Bombay?
Man: Yes, in that last room, on that other side.
Prabhupada: ...once. Kirtanananda Swami has come, he reported that sometimes these European and Americans, they do not like our version, and sometimes they purchase and tear the books, hm? And still they purchase! (laughs) That is the beauty.
Dr. Patel: Europeans...
Prabhupada: No, no. In America. Kirtanananda was saying. They tear these pages, and again still they purchase. This example is given. Just like hot sugarcane juice. Because it is hot, it cannot be taken. But one cannot avoid tasting it. (laughter) Sugarcane juice hot. Because we speak everything against their so-called knowledge, and still they want to taste it. Hot sugarcane juice.
Dr. Patel: Your this Bhagavata commentary is really wonderful. I am critically studying now.
Prabhupada: Thank you.
Dr. Patel: Second reading of mine. On the first reading I just...
Prabhupada: Yes, they read our books for the purport.
Dr. Patel: But you have collected from, I mean, two, three, four or five...
Prabhupada: Dimmock said that "Here is the commentation who has practiced devotion in his life."
Dr. Patel: I mean, those who are research scholars, they can write down better about their work if... If I write down about the...
Prabhupada: He cannot write the...
Dr. Patel: ...write down that way. Because you have done it, you can do it better.
Prabhupada: That is our mission. Apani acar prabhu jiver sikhamu. First of all you behave yourself, then teach. Without being accomplished in your life, don't teach. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement was that. Apani acar prabhu jiver sikhamu.
Dr. Patel: You teach by your action.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...alpa citte bahu kori mane. This is the warning of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Dr. Patel: The Vaisnavas, I mean teaching is that the Vaisnavas should not see any faults in the sadhus or the sannyasis. Just look at the good side, then...
Prabhupada: No, no. That, you may do that. But that is not a sannyasi. Sannyasi is smoking cigarette, drinking tea,...
Dr. Patel: Then they are not sannyasis. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Hm. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. (Hindi about Pagala Bab in Vrndavana) Hm, who goes there? No gentleman goes there.
Dr. Patel: So many people say (Hindi) about these American boys smoking their hashish, their LSD. They are smoking all sorts of things.
Prabhupada: They have learned from India. The American hippies, they have learned from these so-called rascals. Yes. Ginsberg, he introduced this. He came to India, went to Haridwar, he saw so many rascals, sadhus, smoking ganja. He thought, "This is the way..."
Dr. Patel: Accha. Celo.
Prabhupada: No, (Hindi). Hm.
Dr. Patel: Same thing -- our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)
Giriraja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...
Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. The blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of (indistinct). They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.
Prabhupada: That man also says like that.
Dr. Patel: Psychedelic drugs. I mean I read about these psychedelic drugs, and then, you see, this artificial trance, no doubt, that is much different from the samadhi that you get. But they, that is why they are tempted to do it. Same with the LSD. That means they find some sort of a pleasure in it. Sadhus get pleasure in samadhi, they get this artificial samadhi by drugs. Hm?
Prabhupada: Sadhu, they take pleasure in real happiness. Satyanandi. Ramante yoginam ante satyananda. They do not know what is satya, so how they will take pleasure?
Dr. Patel: They are atmarama.
Prabhupada: Para satya dhimahi. They do not know what is para satyam.
Dr. Patel: Temporarily they get this param satyam... (laughs)
Prabhupada: Yogi means satyananda...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi about temporary pleasure) They go down.
Dr. Patel: The whole, I mean, Japan was practically done, I mean, done to practical death by this opium smoking.
Prabhupada: In China also. The Britishers, they were taking opium from India and selling there and making money.
Dr. Patel: And now Chinese leaders were rejoicing that American boys smoking LSD. (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupada: Saurabha, you have brought these logs from Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: So why they are lying idle?
Saurabha: They are not ours, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Then why it was brought here?
Saurabha: They will be used for the temple. They will be used for the scaffolding. For those high things. Because otherwise we have to cut them, and it's very waste of money.
Saurabha: If we cut them...
Prabhupada: No, not cutting.
Saurabha: No. These poles, they all set in size about nine feet. You notice they're about fifteen to eighteen feet. So we use them only for the scaffolding.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...anyhow, they have done it very quickly. Our engineers could not have done it so quickly as that. You are quite fast. And the structure is very strong.
Prabhupada: (laughter) I say they are quite slow.
Dr. Patel: No, no, but it takes its own time for curing and all these things. How can an engineer accelerate that natural process? And that structure is really extremely strong.
Prabhupada: No, no. We want to see the temple also. (kirtana) (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay